Riots

We have all woken up to even more unbelievably shocking news, and I hope that you are all safe.

One of the stories I heard was an interview with Trevor Reeves, owner of a family run furniture store in Croydon, established since 1867, so sad.

London riots: Croydon residents leap from burning buildings as capital burns - Telegraph

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Its truly shocking

I was very near the centre of Birmingham last night after visiting a relative and wondered what all the sirens were about! Couldn't believe it when I got home and saw the local news.

A sub section of our society that think they are above law and order, or don't seem to have the need to follow the general rules of a civilised society.

A lMidlands Today TV crew filmed scrubbers vandalising mobile phone shops and helping themselves over 30 minute period with no Police intervention.

A police spokesman countered this with they were more worried about securing the situation and not inflaming it.

I only hope that every single little scum bag that helped themselves, broke the law is identified by CCTV footage and is arrested and punished. And I don't mean a slap on the wrist or a caution. Otherwise, we have just given a green light for every little toe rag to get a bunch of his toe rag mates, trash a local business, and get away with it.

It's been a shameful few days for the UK, not the best advert for the 2012 games...

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Set the water canons and rubber bullets on them I say.

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I was watching live coverage on BBC all afternoon and evening yesterday and I must admit it's shocking,sad,cowardice acts been performed by some hopeless,selfish looters. I saw the footage of when fire first broke up near the furniture building in Croydon. If police and fire brigade were quick enough, they could have saved the whole block. Two world war it survived and destroyed by some selfish, mean *******s. They don't care about people living in the building when the do these arson attacks. They just show how easy it is to do start these looting where police looking at them helplessly. Those thugs should be identified and punished ASAP. I feel sorry for all those that are affected by these. I hope things will be under control in a day or two. Olympics is around the corner and that's not the thing we want to see happening now.

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Might be a bit contraversal here but hey we can't all think the same... I think personally that the youth of today have been let down by society as a whole, very few have any real prospects for the future of any kind. At the moment their 16-18yr olds soon there'll be 25-30yr olds still in the same boat as they are today. There are no great manufacturing industries left in the UK, training of any kind costs them money, going to University will put most into debt, they've got no chance of ever getting on to the housing market or even social housing come to that. Basic school education lets them down and to much emphasis is spent on using computers rather than other skills like woodwork / metalwork / maths / english / science all kids can't become IT consultants / web designers / and seo guru's.
I'm not making an excuse for the damage and mayhem they are causing, but the youth need something to aspire to currently they have nothing. I work in a few of the Connexions offices in London, 2 weeks ago I was working in the Camden office, I asked them how the job market was for the kids. The response was " there are no jobs for them, and we've all been made redundant"!
Now turn the clocks back 20, 30, 40 years and tell me what your prospects were when you left school. I left school on a Friday with no exams to my name, on the Monday I was in work. Don't get me wrong I am genuinely sorry for the guy's who through no fault of their own have had their businesses trashed. But society needs to ask itself some serious questions, rather than "I'm alrigh Jack" and nobody else matters, becuase we all pay for it in the end...

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Although there is no doubt that the youth of today are emerging into the worst economy for decades and some areas, especially in the inner city, are seriously depressed, I'm afraid that I can't find it within myself to accept that as an excuse for what's going on.

I grew up in Nisbet House in Hackney and my parents had no spare money at all. I had a normal comprehensive school education and left with some O levels. I've never taken part in a riot, trashed a shop, sold drugs or murdered anyone, but I grew up with those that did.

At 22 I got married and started my first business. At 27 I bought a hotel in Scotland (that was in 1989, just before the last recession) and at age 33 I lost the lot.

I still didn't go out on the streets and riot.

4 years ago I started a property business and the government gave us another recession, which seems to have put paid to that as well. Did I go out and trash my local town? No. I started another business in a different field.

The riots have nothing to do with the economy, the university charges or whether these toe rags had toys as a kid. It has to do with wanting something for nothing and seeing an opportunity to get it. One of the guys arrested for looting I saw on TV today is a teaching assistant. That hardly fits the profile the bleeding hearts are whining about.

Unfortunately people want everything now and they don't want to work for it, and while the police are seen on TV standing by and watching while businesses are robbed, then they will sieze the opportunity to upgrade their i-phone while it's available.

It's time we stopped worrying about 'inflaming the situation' and started using the same tactics they used to clean up New York. Zero tolerance is the only answer to thugs and I'd use the army to back up the police and get the job done.

I would also make it impossible to sue the police or army personnel brought in to arrest the rioters and a minimum £5000 fine for anyone found guilty of public order offences, payable immediately or siezure of their property for payment. They should also have to reimburse the insurance companies for any property they have damaged during their rampage.

While we give them a suspended prison sentence or community service they know there is no price to pay if they are caught so it's worth the risk. If we let them know they will suffer when they are caught they will think twice.

Well according to the PM if your a business owner and you've had your business trashed "We will compensate you" anyone believe that?

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The way I see things is that everyone is responsible for their own fate, their own actions and decisions. Sitting back and finding an excuse, blaming everyone imaginable for something you decided to do is wrong IMO. People that come from broken homes, homes that have either one or no parents, people that had very minimal opportunities etc. it's just not an excuse.

Instead of following the general populous like a sheep, you should make a conscious decision to make the best out of what you have and keep at it when all seems lost. You don't have to be a delinquent just because everyone else in your situation is, or because someone in your family was the same way and it seems to be the only way to get results. I had to make those same decisions and to be honest, if I had to redo it all, I would do the same thing all over. My past and my background made me stronger and a better person. The exact opposite of what I could have become, and knowing I made those decisions makes me feel better about myself as a person.

People can sit back and pass the blame to everything and anything they could possibly think of, but in the end it still boils down to one thing; they made their decision and need to deal with the consequences of it all.

Maybe, instead of trying to make things better for everyone to avoid violence, they should focus on teaching people to be headstrong and make decisions that can benefit them instead of harming them.

I hope you guys all stay safe until everything calms down.

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I think you'll find most people will have tough luck stories from yester year, from the age of 4 the following 12 years were spent in various so called care homes about 10 in total, finally ending up in the now defunct Approved Schools. My crime? being born into a flower power hippie drug taking family in the 60s...And the parents of the 60's who now pensioners seem to have a short term memmory loss as they spout " oh it wasn't like that in the old days" If you were born in the 50s to a single mother or she ended up in the local work house the chances were that as a child you would be put on a ship and transported to the other side of the world and used as child labour. So to me living in Hackney's Nisbet House with my parents would have been a dream. I was never an angel as a kid, as a 12 year old I cut the moorings of about 20 motor cruisers and watched them float down the Thames smashing into everything.
I can't say I've ever been on a riot and I don't really agree with them, but if we didn't have the race riots and the poll tax riots in the 80s then nothing would have changed. This country has no idea how to bring up its youth or how to nurture them into becoming worthwhile citizens. Yes you can punish them for what has happened over the last week, you can fine them, you can evict them from their social housing, but what are you going to do with them then? Much better to invest in them at an early age and give everyone an equal footing in life than to forget about them. If as a country we don't deal with the root cause of what is rotten in this country now, then expect this to continue for the next 20 plus years because this weeks rioters will be having kids of their own in a year or two... Either that or we start a mass prison building programme now.

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At last, a proper Friday debate

Left school in '85 and all the media talk was of Maggies 4 million unemployed.

Opportunities were very scarce and after applying for all sorts, ended up on a YTS scheme earning tuppence happeny and working nights in a bar to try and earn some cash. I remember being annoyed at my Mother who insisted on taking a token amount of board from my pitiful YTS wages, but it was a good lesson in life.

Didn't once feel the need to riot and smash the place up, and all the talk of the time used to be "there's no opportunities these days for the kids, nothing for teenagers to do..." no doubt they said the same in the 60's when the Mods and Rockers knocked 7 bells out of each other.

Personally I think the root cause is the cycle of state dependence. For the last 40 - 50 years it has become ingrained that the state is all seeing all knowing, will look after you from cradle to grave, and will readily hand out cash left right and centre. Then the bubble burst...

Unfortunately as the dependence on the state has increased over the years, this has been compounded with the breakdown of our social fabric, family values even common sense has been eroded. Parents no longer seem to be in charge of disciplining their children, Teachers and Police are handicapped with bureaucracy, youngsters enter the workplace with confused messages.

Maybe its education that's at fault? As a society we consider ourselves more affluent, but this in turn has driven greed. We are surrounded by the fallout of the "I want it now" generation. People buying houses with their hearts, where common sense and basic maths are ignored. 120% mortgage please Mr Bank manager, of course sir.

But are we really more affluent? The state pumps money into nearly every home in one form or another? Christ, we even got given a £250 healthy eating allowance for our fist born! You have kids, but why do you need child benefit? If you cant afford it, cancel your Sky subscription and stop smoking. Of course there's exceptions, and that's what hand outs should be for!

I always remember the admiration I felt for families living in the slums of Delhi and Mumbai. On the surface they had nothing and lived in squalor, but each day I used to see all the school children leave their hut in their pristine school uniforms, everything the families had went into getting their kids an education and hopefully a way out of the slums.

Ok, maybe extreme, but sometimes the perceived description of UK poverty is a 1 car family and a basic sky subscription. Obviously we do have some genuine poverty, and this is where benefits should be targeted.

It will take radical change, which is under way, but I suspect it may take a couple of generations to really move on from the current dependant and I want it now culture.

But if the sympathy lies with Johnny hooligan helping himself to a mobile phone while the shop owner lies there bleeding, all because little Johhny didn't have the right start in life, then maybe we are beyond redemption?

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